Round Table - To Marry, or not to marry... that is the question...

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Good Sunday to you all.  We had a really fun week with First Meetings, and I believe we may still have one or two stories that will be posted today or tomorrow on that theme.  I enjoyed all of it and hope you did as well.
Today I was thinking about, well you can see it at the top.  Marriage.  Concerning the guys, that is.  Should they marry?  Do they marry in your world?  I have always tended to keep them single and available, a selfish move on my part but it works.  Others have created scenarios, entire worlds, where the men marry and have a family, sometimes leading to danger and intrigue of an entirely different nature from what we read and see in non-marital stories.
The two series devoted to that life with which I am familiar are that of rosywonder and mrua7.  Both of them have written novella length accounts of these affairs of the heart, and in fact mrua7 is posting hers now in mfu_map_room.  
So, the question remains, do you like the married with children scenario?  Are you, like me, still primarily happy with single vision? I'd like to know where you stand, how you view this and why, if you can nail that down.

Comments

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

I think my problem with them partnering off with partners other than themselves, is that I hate stories where SOs are kept in the dark. I think partnerships, of the domestic as well as spy kind haha, ought to be actual partnerships. That means knowing about UNCLE beyond the glossed-over headlines. Otherwise, to me, it's just a device. Add one spy, one baby-maker, two point five children, and stir. Characterizations may vary. Adjust for altitude.
Unless, of course, the unequal division of intelligence (and I'm speaking here of spy stuff, although unfortunately sometimes both occur in writing of wives) is intentional and thought provoking... and now I sort of want to write a fic from the POV of a wife kept in the dark... Oops plot bunny!

Narratively, especially for fic where the rules are so different from traditional fiction, this is sometimes problematic, as it requires the audience to spend a lot of time with characters they are not predisposed to love. It can, and has, been done to great effect, but it takes a lot of work, and a lot of trust in the reader, too.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I've never particularly liked the idea of a wife and kids, partly because (big confession here), it left me out. My daydreams and fantasies get short circuited when there's a love interest, something that is a holdover from my youthful crush I suppose. It is a pre-disposition of sorts. I will say, however, that there are some well written, compelling stories out there. Two of them do come from our friends here on Section VII. The Coalminer's Wife, by rosywonder, is a deep and well written story that takes us on a journey that is undeniably one you want to travel. It took me a couple of years to read it, my resistance was firmly in tact. Once there, however, I was won over for what lies within her universe. I don't want them there all of the time, but I'm glad to have read that story.
Another fine married life series belongs to mrua7 who, as I stated above, is running hers from the beginning in the Map Room.
The Coalminer's Wife is here:https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4844186/1/The-Coalminer-s-wife

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

In my AU stories Illya's eventual wife is a Section II agent, which eventually becomes a point of contention between them when becomes pregnant. I actually have that happening before marriage even comes into the picture. The all seeing Alexander Waverly knows what's going on with them, even though they've been quite secretive about their romance and eventual co-habitation. He sanctions the marriage, though Section I is against it. So Illya and his wife become a sort of experiment to see if agents can indeed marry and still function as operatives.

Napoleon marries a bit later, having met his wife in a hospital in which he was being cared for as a patient. This particular NYC hospital has a section devoted to the care of UNCLE agents... It made sense to me that agents suffering more severe injuries just wouldn't be able to be taken care of in UNCLE Medical as that can't be equipped for everything.

Napoleon's former nurse now girlfriend named Bella is already aware of his line of work, but when certain aspects of his job...i.e. Angelique comes to light. She breaks off the engagement. Lots of fancy footwork on Solo's part to win her back, but he does. Not long after the wedding she is pregnant with 'twins.'

Throughout my regular stories I have Napoleon and Illya discussing life after UNCLE, neither really thinking a woman would have them, after the life they'd lived. There are hints at both of them wanting a normal life and families though.

These somewhat linked my adventure stories to the AU ones. They're all connected in a specific time line. as Pre-Saga...regular MFU fics. and my Saga Series-where they do marry etc....while still actively work for UNCLE.

I'm happy to say there have been quite a few canon devotees who have been won over to my AU world because I kept it very much UNCLE, I kept the relationships plausible and sometimes contentious,( married couples have problems, but perhaps more so in the UNCLE universes) Most of all, I didn't turn it into some Harlequin romance story.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Thank you Glenna.

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

He! I can see that, and for better or for worse, self-insert fic is fairly looked-down-upon. :( The Mary Sue is a real victim. As a queer person I missed out on the majority of that daydream, and mine get mostly fulfilled from h/c ;)
Secret identity revealed! is also a great trope, and I could see that coming into this sort of fic too. :)

[alynwa.livejournal.com]

Mrua7's take on the boys' married life is quite good, though I've teased her that she's left Illya's wife pregnant for an inordinate length of time, LOL.

I like the guys single for the most part though I have given them a child to raise in an AU. I think married life works for them if it's written well.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I can't see them as married with children types. I know some fans don't accept the return movie as "canon," but I can see them trying ordinary lives and finding them ultimately unsatisfying. Even putting slash aside, I think the most important relationship each one has is the other. I can easily imagine them as crotchety old men in the U.N.C.L.E. Retirement Home, sharing a room and snarking till the end. :D

[lindafishes8.livejournal.com]

I've read and enjoyed "Coal Miner's Wife" and almost all of mru7's saga series (I've saved her last story to read before the one she's working on with Elliot pregnant again, is finished and posted.

The only thing I miss about these "marriage" stories (sorry mru7) is that the comforting given to the injured partner becomes the wife's role. The other agent is left standing in the background for the major scenes. That doesn't mean that I don't care for the marriage stories, but that piece of very satisfying angst which I crave is missing. The spouse's comforting is just not the same.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

In general, I don't care for the "married with kids" scenario. The idea that these two agents would have time to create a blissful home life with a family seems like a stretch, given the demands of their profession.

At times these family scenarios are so wholesome and happy that I find them unrealistic. The kids are just too adorable. Of course I'm generalizing--there are some very well-written stories out there.

I enjoy stories with a love interest, or a spouse, but the interaction between the two characters has to feel authentic, and must take into consideration the stress caused by the career the guys have chosen.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

That's why I prefer slash or gen. A third party takes the focus away from Napoleon and Illya's relationship (whether friends or lovers).

[lindafishes8.livejournal.com]

These men work so hard to protect the innocents and each other in the process. It seems like they deserve a chance at having families of their own; they've earned that. Who would carry on the Kuryakin line if he had no children? (Most authors have him orphaned and without living siblings.)

So many authors have shown the envy and ache in their hearts when they see fathers with children or married couples. They've sacrificed so much to become top agents in their field.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I see them, during the 'working' years, as being a tightly knit pair with a friendship that is supportive, perhaps even primary compared to anything else they might encounter. I tend to embrace the Return Movie, have written several stories based on it in fact. I see attempts at romance and long term relationships, although they do not seem ideally suited to them in my estimation.
The marriage scenario is one that wishes them well, while I tend to think failed relationships and solitude is more likely the state of things; it is what they were groomed for.

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

Not necessarily with children, but I find marriage an interesting possibility. As the above posters have said, making the wife a fellow professional does make things easier.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

So many authors have shown the envy and ache in their hearts when they see fathers with children...
Yep, that's what doomed affairs are for, the children they discover late in life ;) Of course I gave Illya a daughter he knew about but couldn't have contact with... So many years of regret. How's that for angst ;)

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

You know...
We could do a fantasy challenge where the agents get married... to other agents, an innocent, some glamorous socialite or a social worker; the choice is all up to the writer of course. Just a thought...

[lindafishes8.livejournal.com]

That story left me in tears. Now that's ANGST! *grin*

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I've also written a series of stories based on the return movie. While it certainly has its flaws, I think it has merits as well. I don't think the lack of long-term romance (or family) for them is necessarily a bad or sad thing. For some people, a worthwhile career and friendship are enough. I see Napoleon and Illya as these types.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Chuckle, yes you have teased me, as has Glenna. I actually have been working on that story to let Elliott finally give birth.

thanks for the compliment on my AU stories. The beauty of the way I set it up is that I can write stories that take place in the timeline before the guys meet and marry their wives etc. I call these pre-saga stories. So I can have the best of both worlds so to speak.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I took on the AU time line of married with children later in their careers, say mid 30's. So given they're required to leave the field at age 40, the family scenario works. It's not all happiness for them though, and there are some tumultuous times, and an angst-ridden situation thanks to a former UNCLE agent turned THRUSH.

So I don't make my AU family stories full of all hearts and roses, to say the least. Most importantly Illya and Napoleon remain dangerous agents in the world of espionage...but they're still human, with human frailties and desires.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

You've hit on a very good point. Wanting an idyllic family life for Illya and Napoleon is understandable, because we know what they go through in the service of humanity. An agent's job is unforgiving. The men do what they do because they believe in what UNCLE stands for, and because they refuse to give up hope for a better future. To make things even more challenging, they do it all in secret, without thought of reward or applause.

It's no wonder so many writers want them to have a rosy, idyllic home life, as a balance for what they endure in that other, shadowed world.

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

This is my main objection as well. I love U.N.C.L.E. stories, and stories from other fandoms with close friendships, because the friendship is the most important thing and it's those in the friendship always giving the comfort. Wives, sorry to say, just get in the way of that. ;) And since that's my main interest, I doubt I will ever really be interested in any of the stories with wives.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I'm with you. I'll take a great story of friendship over romance any day.

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

The problem of OCs being characters the readers don't know or love is another of my reasons for not being fond of marriage-type stories. I don't know this character or that character; why would I want to read about them interacting extensively with someone I like, when I could instead read about two characters I like interacting? ;) I can come to like some people's OCs, granted, but usually I honestly couldn't care less and don't want to put in the effort to get to know them better. I prefer for OCs to stay in the background and only have supporting roles in stories.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of original characters (as lead characters) either. We are familiar with Napoleon, Illya and Mr. Waverly because we've seen them through 105 episodes. Like the Innocents of the Week, original characters are one-dimensional to me.

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

I must admit, I do enjoy oneshot episodic characters and love to flesh them out. But they're still canon characters, no matter how small their parts are, and that makes them different from OCs in my mind. That said, the oneshot episodic characters I love to write about are usually not the Innocents of the Week. ;)

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I agree about the difference between canon and original characters. I find the Innocents specifically (most of them, anyway) to be very blah. The villains always seem to be more fleshed out and therefore more interesting (which I'm sure I don't have to tell you)! :D

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

Yes, they have such a wide collection of fun and fascinating villains! :)

I do like some of the good guy guest-stars, and my view can definitely be colored if they're played by actors I like. ;)

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

The right actor or actress can definitely make a difference.

[irisheitie.livejournal.com]

I sometimes see a a wise spouse -- someone beyond convention as a SO for either of the guys. The SO would recognize that primary bond between the partners and be able to allow them some space. Fellow agents, sections 2 or 3; medical staff; UNCLE staff who get the need for some amount of secrecy and get the bond of partner/friend/brother-in-arms. There could be some discord as is in real relationships, but strong people require strong partners. that being said, I agree with glennagirl that I would probably feel "left out"!

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

All of this talk almost makes me want to write the perfect wife for them. Almost. Your stipulation that she be wise, savvy concerning the lives they lead and what needs arise from that is most definitely what would set this woman apart.