Round Table - To Return or Not Return

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I was pleased and humbled to see that my story, Becoming Vanya, was rec'd on mfu_shortstorie .  In that same vein, we recently had two new stories, posted by highshore and orockthro, that also are written around the Vanya/Return Movie scenario.
Which brings me to the discussion topic for the day:  Can you embrace the Fifteen Years Later Affair on any level, or do you totally reject it?
I for one don't have a problem with it.  I can see it happening, can see the weariness that both men exhibit during the last season of the show which certainly gives rise to the speculation about them each wanting out at some point.  In my House of Vanya series there is some resolution of their former roles, so not all  hope is lost concerning UNCLE.  However, the steps that come before are what people seem to have issue with; they can't see the men ever leaving UNCLE.
So, what do you think?  Are they fallible and subject to emotional and mental upheavals such as are reflected in the FYLAffair?  Or do they staunchly 'carry on' til the end, with no respite in sight?

Comments

[avery11.livejournal.com]

I can't totally embrace the Return movie, for the same reasons that I can't fully embrace the new MFU flick. Neither movie was especially well written or directed, and there wasn't a great deal of emotional interaction between Illya and Napoleon.

There are some interesting ideas in the Return movie. I can see Napoleon's world-weariness, and Illya's bitterness. But why did one man stay when the other left? The answer to that question feels essential to their relationship as Illya and Napoleon reconnect fifteen years later. Without an answer to that question, things just don't make sense.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

,,,But why did one man stay when the other left? The answer to that question feels essential to their relationship as Illya and Napoleon reconnect fifteen years later. Without an answer to that question, things just don't make sense.

That's where we come in. I resolved that question for myself in the stories I've written. Perhaps the first step towards that is not insisting that the two men were each other's constant companions, as has been envisioned by some. There is plenty of evidence to suggest they lived very separate lives when not on duty, and that something as small as a misunderstanding could have led to their eventual isolation from each other.
I know that isn't everyone's world, but it seems reasonable to me. Even very good friends can drift apart given particular circumstances.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

I have no problem seeing the two men having separate lives when not on duty. It makes sense that they would. 24/7 can become tedious, even when there is a great friendship involved.

I have less success imagining the breakup of such a strong friendship for the vague reason given in the movie. Illya and Napoleon are mature men, and more than that, they are wise beyond their years. I simply can't see them trashing a friendship over a misunderstanding, however hurt they may have been. I see them fighting like hell to heal the breach.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Again, we as the 'new' writers have a blank sheet of paper, figuratively speaking, on which to construct this to a more agreeable scenario. My take on it has Illya not prepared to leave when Napoleon suggests it; he needs a plan and his friend has only a desire to be someplace else. When the time comes for Kuryakin to make his decision he has lost sight of his friend, and perhaps Napoleon constructed that as well. He knew he couldn't watch Illya continue on, risking his life while he sat idly by, so better to leave and not look back.
It's all speculation, storytelling... People do lose contact and no matter how much we want them to 'fight for the friendship', there are times when people tend to self-preservation above all else.
The movie isn't as good as the series deserved, but the bones of the story are still there for us to flesh out and make into something living.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

Different points of view, I suppose. It's all good. I may not like the movie, but I certainly have enjoyed your "Vanya" stories.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I have very mixed feelings about the return movie. It sets up some interesting points and then drops them. Honestly, if the guys had spent the majority of the film together, I could very easily ignore all the minor idiocies. I really love their few scenes together, which makes it all the more frustrating that there aren't more. I think the ending is great and looks toward a better future, which unfortunately we never got to see. Arrrgh.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I didn't particularly care for the Return movie and I agree with Avery; it wasn't very well written or directed. There were hardly any scenes where Napoleon and Illya were together.

The iffy reason for their friendship and partnership falling on hard times seemed too childish, given how well these two seemed to know each other. To trust your life and survival to a person on a nearly daily basis was a testament to their relationship, and for it to drift apart because of a triviality just didn't jive with me.

Like the new movie, I think the Return movie could have been done better.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

There's no question that the film is a wash in turns of being satisfactory. The fact that we in the fandom live as much for the fiction that has come after all of it is what makes it something for us to re-create as we see fit. For that I am fine as far as going with what they gave us, because I can enlarge it and redesign it.
Frustrations at the lack of scenes together, absolutely.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Again, no one would give this one an award. If it weren't for the fact that we get to see the two men together again, at 50... well, we know it's not a good movie. But, the potential is there, and I guess that is what I grabbed onto and am still fantasizing about. I like Illya at this age, and the questions that need answering... I want to do that.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I think your Vanya series is a major improvement upon what the Return movie set up. Hmm has anyone done a Solo follow up to it?

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

Though I appreciate the good fic based on the Return movie, I can't quite think of it as canon. Any alternate postludes are fair dos, to me.

Of the last two sentences...I'm inclined to think having either or both is the most plausible.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

So much potential wasted. That's what frustrates me the most. You have Vaughn and McCallum together - chemistry undiminished by the years - and you toss it out the window!

[irisheitie.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I never saw them as having as intense a relationship as some writers imagine. I can see where something happened that was Solo's final straw, just as one more innocent lost was Kuyakin's final straw. I had no problem with the return movie and I look forward to watching the new one. I think they were able to re-connect once they met up again.
I never read your story before, so I just did and I loved it!!

[alynwa.livejournal.com]

I can certainly see them leaving UNCLE, I can even see them no longer joined at the hip and moving on with their lives separately. However, in my head, they love each other (whether it be platonic or romantic depends on my mood)and I refuse to believe that they would not speak for 15 years and, assuming UNCLE didn't contact them, would never have spoken to each other again. That simply does not compute and never will. So I guess the movie and I aren't on the same page.

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

My problem isn't in one or both of them wanting to leave U.N.C.L.E., but that I found what they were doing in the interim preposterous and not in-character. And I never like plots where the characters have let their friendship break apart. It's the same reason why I still haven't touched the Wild Wild West reunion movies. In addition to just being depressing and filled with a little too much realism, I find it out-of-character. There are friends who don't let their friendships get torn asunder, and I like to think that both the U.N.C.L.E. and the WWW characters would be among them. To me, nothing else is really believable.

[otherhawk.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much exactly how I feel about it. There's something about Vanya's in particular that I just find completely breaks my suspension of disbelief. Though I have enjoyed several fics that make use of it, the film itself just doesn't appeal.

Plus, I prefer to think that their friendship remains intact.

[renn.livejournal.com]

I have a certain fondess for "Return of," as it was the first bit of U.N.C.L.E.ness I saw. I'm fine w/ Solo and Kuryakin leaving U.N.C.L.E. as well as what their professions are. I don't have a burning desire to rewatch it, though, because once I saw the actual series, the "Return of" struck me as somewhat hollow-- we want to see them together, please. So color me meh.