Round Table - Illya's Women

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

We love Illya, and we all, most of us, have that secret dream of being the woman he desires.  But what exactly would that take?  The quote from The Recollector's Affair (photo credit Lisa's Framecap Library), makes us wonder just how attractive and how much beyond competent the Russian is talking about.  He obviously thinks Lisa Donato qualifies because there's some hanky panky going on between the two.  So, is he so picky that only a handful of women can fit into his ideal image? Is that why he so seldom has the affairs we expect from his friend Napoleon? Which makes us wonder, is Napoleon so active (ahem...), because of his standards or is he just the uber chick magnet who gets too many offers to refuse?
What do you think?

"Well, an attractive woman should be more than just competent."

Comments

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

Interesting topic. Illya's few romances always seemed kind of awkward to me - and that thing with Coco was downright cringeworthy. I got the impression that women were not that necessary to him.

As for Napoleon, at times he seemed to be trying too hard, like he had to keep up the image of the "ladies' man." I thought he was a much more appealing character in the 4th season when he was more focused on the job.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

There was definitely an effort to fit Napoleon into the James bond mould, always on the make with whatever woman was close at hand. Apparently Mr. Vaughn reveled in the role as some of the actresses have said his romantic scenes were undertaken with great intensity.
As for Illya's awkwardness, we need to remember how limited his romancing was due to the outcry of female fans who threatened to boycott the series if Illya kissed anyone. His little flirtation in the Bow Wow Affair created quite an uproar, and the studio responded by limiting Kuryakin's romantic activities.

In The Very Important Zombie Affair, Illya remarks about how long Suzy is taking to get dressed; he asks Napoleon why it is that a woman can shed her clothes almost instantly, but requires so much time to put them back on. Apparently he has some experience with both of those scenarios.
Such a sweet boy ;)

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

It's interesting how those off-screen issues caused a sort of imbalance - too much Napoleon/women, too little Illya/women.

I also find it fascinating how these things play into the slash phenomenon. Illya's seeming disinterest in women, Napoleon's almost over-interest. Intentional? Unintentional? Intriguing mysteries.

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

Thanks for reminding us about the constrictions on the canon writers. Your and st-crispins' Illya/Marion is very convincing.

If I could write, I think I might try pairing him with someone of Russian - or Ukrainian - background, who spoke his own language and had his own culture. And could cook Russian food, well, too!

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I've never thought Illya was not interested in women, he leers at a few of them very effectively in spite of not seeing any follow through. Perception perhaps.
As for slash, I've read that Beatles' fans first wrote in that vein in an effort to assuage their own fantasies that the Fabs weren't interested in other girls. They began to write stories that eliminated any sign of female companionship and eventually phased into slash like scenarios.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Finding a Russian ex-patriot would be an interesting scenario. The closest I've come is his almost romance with the dancer in Pas de Deux. (https://archiveofourown.org/works/206528/chapters/307439) I think there are a couple of others who emerge from his past, but nothing that is a continuing story. Perhaps one of these days you will write ;)

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I'd never heard of that Beatles story. Very interesting. My own interest in slash stems simply from the fact that Napoleon and Illya are at their best and most appealing with each other (whether platonic or romantic).

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I agree, their relationship is the core of the series. I just don't think that translates to a sexual thing, but again, perception.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I don't necessarily think of slash as a sexual thing, more of a "they are the most important people in each other's lives" idea. I agree that their relationship is the driving force of the show, however one perceives it.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

That's a really good topic for a conversation... like a Round Table ;) Do people perceive their friendship as the most important thing in each man's life? We'll have to explore that because I know there are differing opinions. Thanks for the inspiration.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

My pleasure! I don't often participate in discussions (I'm not always comfortable "speaking" on the internet) but I really enjoy these Round Tables.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I think both men are aware they can't have any kind of real relationship with a woman and stay an active UNCLE agent. For Illya, that means making his forays rare (and presumably cautious? Selecting women who aren't likely to be looking for permanence, even if they are more than merely competent?). For Napoleon, it means keeping them shallow. Obviously that doesn't mean either man couldn't end up falling in love. But one could argue they're each navigating a difficult path in a slightly different (and equally imperfect) way.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I understand, I've had a couple of uncomfortable encounters. I'm glad you feel free to speak here.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

The Clara business and the Deep Six Affair, where Illya famously says 'We have each other', were able to touch on the subject of the futility of marriage as a Section II. It ties in with the comment above by vmccooley that their friendship is the most important relationship each man has.
Aloof and shallow... not a good recommendation for longevity.

[threecee.livejournal.com]

Considering some of the speculations about just what Illya and Lisa were doing hidden behind the sofa, someone with a disgustingly dirty mind [not me of course] might ask just what Illya expects them to be more than merely competent at.

I remember In Take Me to Your Leader, that Coco was making most of the advances and Illya seemed uncomfortable with most of it. He did have that odd scene where he put the rope around her neck and told her she needed to get dressed because she was tempting him too much in her bikini. If you think about that, he's alone with a bikini-clad female who clearly fancies him and he tells her to go put more clothes on. Would Napoleon do this?

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't her character a teenager-ish age? They paired him up with girls who were too young, possibly to capitalize on his fan base. Even Napoleon wkuld have passed up jail bait. I'm conjecturing here, but it seems plausible.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Anonymous is me :D I was on a tablet and not signed in.

[threecee.livejournal.com]

I would put Coco at more college age, just not particularly mature. Nancy Sinatra was in her mid-twenties at the time. With a very few exceptions, MfU portrayed most of the women Napoleon and Illya met as immature, irresponsible, vapid, or just plain kooky. Probably why characters like Heather, Linda Rogers, and Angelique stand out for us.