Human Frailty...

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I saw this article rec'd on a facebook page, so clicked on it and read it.  It's actually from 2007, so probably something a lot of people have seen before.  The thing that stood out to me was a couple of things Robert Vaughn said regarding the night he got the script on UNCLE.  He says he and a friend picked up a couple of 'floozies', and later mentions that again in reference to utilizing the charms he used to seduce them as an acting tool for portraying Solo.
I know he is a product of his times, and perhaps he didn't think referring to women as floosies sounded hypocritical alongside the very obvious reality of his own promiscuity (in this instance), but reading it I had a rather negative reaction to him and to his point of view.  All of this from a man who later says it didn't even bother him for the show to be cancelled because he was so wrapped up in the anti-war movement.
Again, a little self-centered considering a slew of people were put out of work with the cancellation of MFU.
Am I being a little too critical?  Maybe, and it doesn't keep me from being a fangirl for the show.  But it does tend to add weight to my preference for David McCallum as a real life person, based on the bits and pieces I know about him.
So, any thoughts on the subject?  Any rebuttals to my impressions of the article and what is reported there?  I'm curious, and I can forgive Robert Vaughn for his seemingly, to use a word that gets tossed around quite a bit, misogynistic attitude.  I'm sure he repented and changed his ways with age and maturity.

Comments

[threecee]

I don't think "floozies" was quite as bad as it sounds now. They were somewhere between "nice" girls who would never even talk to a strange man and actual prostitutes. Floozies would let a man pick them up and take them out for a fun time which didn't always include sex, although it was always a possible end to the evening. Actual sex depended on how much they liked the man, so Robert's seduction technique would be relevant.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I think he was a product of the times, when attitudes towards women were quite different. There was no equality; men ruled. Yes he was promiscuous...I recall reading about him being with Steve McQueen and seven prostitutes after they crossed the border into Mexico while filming The Magnificent Seven. Yet at the other end of the spectrum ...his debate with William F Buckley showed his intelligence and his antiwar sentiment.
The studios were always pairing their stars with beautiful women to promote the 'glamorous' lifestyle. Women were trophies, eye candy. Some of them had to deal with the 'casting couch.' I recall reading about a woman who auditioned for a role on UNCLE and a casting couch incident happened and she refused. McCallum and Vaughn were up in arms about it... So Robert may have been promiscuous, but he also knew right from wrong...

Still, back then, men were men and women were ...less. That's the way it was. As he matured his attitudes changed, and I recall him saying that he was amazed he survived that lifestyle. Still he mended his ways.


Now days younger female celebrities are practically prostituting themselves with nearly naked outfits to attend big Hollywood gatherings, or heck just sharing nude photos of themselves on social media sites, just to gain publicity and create sensationalism. A bit of the old Sodom and Gomorah is returning, I think.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I agree that he seems to have turned himself around later in life, and certainly marriage and parenthood would have an impact on anyone's life. It was just that term that piqued my interest, and the double standard it represented in the telling of the story.
I'll still stick with McCallum though, I just can't help myself ;)

[bonniejean1953.livejournal.com]

I agree with you but I do wish Mr. McCallum had not voted for trump... I lost some of my respect for him over this election. I know he's vehemently non- socialist but to willingly put that bastard in office is a big mistake in my book.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Not having voted for either of the major party candidates, I can't fault him for following his conscience any more than someone who voted for Hillary.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I've learned through long, hard experience not to let actors' real-life behavior affect my on-screen enjoyment. I'm an I Spy fan and that's not the easiest thing to be. McCallum's politics bother me a lot more than Vaughn's attitude, but it doesn't make me love Illya any less.

[fiorenza-a.livejournal.com]

I agree - character = one thing, actor = another.

Although, that does become harder when their crimes are much more repugnant than dubious political views. What we've learned about some public figures in recent decades leaves me with little desire to watch them on screen.

But there's a difference between not being someone I'd warm to and being a convicted criminal.

[vmccooley.livejournal.com]

I got to the point where if I let it bother me, I wouldn't be able to watch anything, because a good number of stars are really shitty people. I can hate Cosby but love Scotty. It's difficult but it's there, so I deal with it.

[fiorenza-a.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you have to divorce one from the other - but some hurdles I just can't jump.

I wish people could just be decent to each other. I don't need them to be saints, I can get past them voting for things I don't agree with, or even not getting on board with evolution, but I have difficulty with stuff like Cosby (on the assumption he's guilty).

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

Hello! Your entry got to top-25 of the most popular entries in LiveJournal!
Learn more about LiveJournal Ratings in FAQ (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=303).

Rubuttal as Requested!

[fiorenza-a.livejournal.com]

I did wonder if 'floozie' was a euphemism for a lady who likes to be paid for her time.

And the poor man was apparently not immune to being objectified by his fans (the shower scene sounds very season three!).

I read the later paragraph as meaning that he used skills he already knew he had, having used them in real life, to play the seducer Napoleon Solo. Rather than that he went out specifically seducing women as practise for the part.

I didn't read his take on the show cancellation quite as callously as you did either (maybe I'm just in a mellow mood, our weather broke and I'm happy to be cool :0)), because the industry itself is pretty brutal about hiring and firing. And of course many of the technicians etc. would have worked for the studio, rather than the programme - the end of U.N.C.L.E. may simply have meant they moved to the next production. Sad to see the end of the show, but not necessarily the end of their paycheque.

And it was some decades after the event.

Plus actors and their egos...

Still, if you like Mr McC best, I'm happy to support you in your choice without any rebuttal at all! :0)

RE: Rubuttal as Requested!

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I figured he already knew how to seduce women, but the double standard of name calling seemed odd, especially since the quote is from 2007. All of that aside, I'm not holding it against him.

RE: Rubuttal as Requested!

[fiorenza-a.livejournal.com]

Well there's a puff in there for Tom Cruise, who was at one time being touted for Napoleon Solo, and a plug for the boxset (which I now have, yea!), so I wonder if it was a bit of a publicity piece.

A sort of variant of the infomercial, so 'family friendly' euphemisms were required.

And I did enjoy Mr McC's assertion that he's still waiting for the studio to tell him the show's been cancelled!

But alas, the double standard existed, and exists. I think sometimes it's so ingrained, it's subconscious. Everyone seems to feel they have a right to comment on what a woman is and isn't doing with her body.

A lot better than it was though, so I have hope, even if we're not there yet.

[pfrye.livejournal.com]

I try to not equate the actor with the character...because let's be real - it's Illya and Napoleon we love not DMcC and RV. I also know that people are shaped and formed by their worldview based on when and where they grew up. RV's and DMcC's world view are different than mine, I may not agree with them and may feel that their views are repugnant but that in no way changes how I feel about the "characters" that they brought to life.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I agree, it's all about the men from UNCLE. I never kept up with either of their careers after the show folded, and have only discovered some of the other things they did as a participant here on LJ.

[the-wretching.livejournal.com]

I'm more bothered by McCallum's politics than anything you've said here about Vaughn. And Vaughn was active in politics...working for RFK, protesting the war. I look kindly on that, even if he also was a product of the misogyny of his time.

It also seems a very modern thing to weigh the behaviors and attitudes of celebrities so heavily. I think? It's something I've been watching happen and I'm not sure it's always a good thing. Though I certainly understand the role-model argument as well as the how-much-freaking-money-they-make one.

Anyway... I can forgive him being a sexist jerk in the sixties. Or at least, I can divorce the actor from the character (not that Napoleon was such a feminist!) And with McCallum as well. I can still drool over Ducky's curling ear without getting worked up over how David voted in the last election.

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I suppose because celebrities are so very much more public about everything (and I do mean everything) than they used to be it results in a sense of both unrealistic familiarity and extra judgmentalism from the public. They're in our face so very much more - by their own choice - that it's hard not to think you know enough about them to make a judgment. It's also entertainment for a lot of people. I mean, if I, who couldn't give less than the tiniest shit about these people, know anything at all about the fact that Beyonce had twins or a Kardashian got a new tattoo on her personal region or something, then the data overload is massive.

Celebrities were more distant in the 60s.

I admire RVs politics and his zeal. I don't necessarily agree with every single part of his politics, though I lean that way. I will say nothing about this revelation (to me) about David McCallum's voting choice except that if there was ever a motivation for separating an actor from his character, y'all have just handed me a MASSIVE one.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I could do without headlines altogether. Well, I mostly do since I don't have cable or subscribe to a paper. I avoid most of the other resources. RV didn't do anything or say anything that will diminish my regard for him as Napoleon Solo, and that's all I really care about.

[the-wretching.livejournal.com]

Is it by their choice? That celebrities are more in the public? I hadn't thought of that --I'd thought it had more to do with the media culture. *shrug* Either way it may have been best to not know everything about them. Some deserve public scorn, but others... eh, it's more grey-area.

Yeah I don't know the particulars of RVs activism/campaigning. And yeah, DMC even had a bumper sticker. I'm happier to keep them as Napoleon and Illya in my mind.

[rose-of-pollux.livejournal.com]

Keep in mind, though, that this was the same man who stayed married to the same woman for over 40 years and said in another interview that he couldn't even imagine cheating on her.

He wasn't married during the MFU days; he admits to being an unattached bachelor and living that kind of life. But he changed.

And regardless of his love life, he was still such a kind and intelligent and brave soul. Literally everyone who's worked with him has had nothing but praise for him, he was well-researched in politics and the Hollywood blacklist, and oh my gosh, doing all those water scenes despite not knowing how to swim...

Not trying to get you to convert from David to Robert, of course. Just defending my fave. I love and admire Robert very deeply, and I cried my eyes out when he died. I'm still not over it.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I understand the sense of loyalty, and, let's face it... what our hearts require ;) I have no doubt he lived his life with the utmost grace and integrity after he grew into it a little more. Those early days, hanging out with the Kennedy clan and perhaps emulating what he saw there, might have influenced his own behavior.
Now that's another conversation: all about the Kennedys.

[rose-of-pollux.livejournal.com]

Yes, very much; Robert is the first celebrity who I was able to relate to on so many levels. His love life is obviously not one of those levels, but for so many others that strike a chord in me (we share a mutual dislike of having our faces submerged in water, we're both total Ravenclaws, we're both total introverts, he loved and fanboyed over Hamlet like I love and fangirl over Pokémon.... I could go on and on), I'm able to overlook that one--especially since he changed. :)

Yeeeep, that's... highly likely.