Round Table - Neptune Affair

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

The Neptune  Affair is one of those pivotal episodes in which we firmly establish that Illya Kuryakin is, indeed, a Soviet agent whose affiliation with his country is still intact.  He hasn't defected and he is not at all adrift from his homeland.  In fact, he is seen in uniform as a member of the Soviet Navy, something that comes across as a true vocation for him when he goes toe to toe with Napoleon over the origins of the plague that is affecting crops in the Soviet Union.
So, with all of that in motion, should the series have delved more deeply into the Soviet nature of our blond?  I think there are maybe only two other instances where it is referenced that Illya is Russian; Napoleon's 'smart Russian' comment (The Never, Never Affair), and another one I can't exactly quote or place.  Maybe one of you remembers where to find it.
Did we need more Cold War interaction between our heroes?
Do you have a favorite story that does go into this element of the series?

Comments

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

I agree, I can't see anyway he could be a defector and in this situation in uniform. Uncle or not, the Soviet authorities won't stand by and allow a defector into the country and not take action. Wearing uniform would only make it worse. He'd be in front of a firing squad before anyone could rescue him.

I've seen it said that his cap is too big. Now it certainly isn't the right size for him, but it's too small. If it was too big it would slide down over his eyes. Try it yourself with a strip of paper and you'll see what I mean .

[vysila.livejournal.com]

The scene you reference in Neptune is one of my favorites from the entire series and I agree with your take on it. IK has to be considered a Soviet in good standing just in order to be "lent out" to UNCLE.

I'm pretty sure that some stories have referenced this episode/scene but can't bring them to mind. I've got a WIP on it, but it may never get finished at the rate my writing is going.

The other episode you're thinking of where Illya's Sovietness comes into play is "Love Affair", where IK and NS discuss privilege when NS goes into the garden party.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

This was one of the few episodes that Illya's Russian accent was obvious. Given the time period it was extraordinary to have a Soviet and and American paired as partners, but more and more it was downplayed in the show that Illya was Russian...even his accent disappeared.

It would have been nice if they'd delved more into his background.

And I agree, he's not a defector here, he's a Soviet officer on loan.

As Vysila said, his Russian-ness does come through in a few other episodes but only fleeting.

I don't even think he uttered a word of Russian in the show at all. Though Illya spoke one or two in Russian in the Reunion movie...at the end I believe when he asks the bartender for a glass.

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

I can't remember whose story it is, but I think there's one where IK passes an Order of Lenin on to NS in recognition of his part in this affair.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

Definitely agree. Years ago, when the episodes were just being seen again, some folks argued that IK was undercover in that uniform. But the scene that follows in which he explains to Napoleon about the devastating impact on the Soviet wheat crop [which BTW, historically did happen] leaves no doubt that this is his homeland. He is Soviet.

There are other hints, in the Love Aff [start the revolution etc. comments about bourgeoisie] in Girls of Nazarone where NS refers to him as tovarisch, in Terbuf in which IK teases Solo about appearing so American [Terbuf is probably behind the Iron Curtain; so is the country in Dove and Strigas].

NBC would not allow them to go further. This was, after all, only 2 years after the Cuban Missile Crisis. But sophisticated audiences got the sly references. These all slowly disappeared by third season when what was clearly the Soviet premier visited NY and didn't treat IK as a fellow countryman. Sam Rolfe was gone; they were hiring comedy writers and even worse, Boris Ingster was in charge.

But that's why I want to bang my head against a wall when some folks on FB, who have never been around the fandom, want to maintain once again that IK is not Soviet. Jeez, what the hell is wrong with you? Are you still 12?

Anyway, the new movie, for better or worse, will fix that once and for all.

As for stories, I've written extensively on IK's Soviet background in the St. Crispin's universe. My fav Soviet IK stories are by N.L. Hayes who knew what she was writing about.

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

And another episode that puts IK in Russia is that one with the mind reading machine, can't remember the title, where the inventor says IK is thinking about being a small boy in Kiev.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

Just to add: IK cannot be a defector because that would change the entire nature of the U.N.C.L.E. organization as Felton and Rolfe conceived it.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

My most Soviet story: the City of Lies Affair

http://file40.net/file40g/crispins/berlin.html

[vysila.livejournal.com]

Oooh, fascinating! Doesn't ring a bell with me, unfortunately. Hope you remember the title at some point!

[vysila.livejournal.com]

Fox and Hounds. What a fabulous episode!

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Kiev is actually in western Ukraine, though it was a member of the Soviet Union. Though I think the writer's goofed at the time thinking of it all as Russian. Illya could have been an ethnic Russian born in Ukraine.

I have a bunch of stories relating to Illya's background in my MFU world. A few where he returns to the Soviet Union sometimes willingly and one time not... He's not a defector in my world but because he doesn't spy on UNCLE and the US...I have the KGB after him. (Illya is part of GRU, the Soviet Military Intelligence) and in the Kremlin, historically there was an on-going shift of power between GRU and KGB....so when KGB was in favor I had them periodically going after Illya.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, the Love Affair, I even wrote little snippet in reference to it where IK is grousing a bit because of the assumed snub he would receive amongst those well-heeled heels.
No Difference is the story…



https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7152868/1/No-Difference

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

That comment from the Kiev moment … "That's enough!" Possibly the most emotion we ever see from our Russian.

Pitch Perfect is my story in the aftermath of Foxes and Hounds and that Kiev moment.

http://archiveofourown.org/works/633201

[rosywonder.livejournal.com]

All I have to add is that I don't think his hat was particularly big by Russian military uniform standards. I went into East Berlin in 1971 and there were plenty of officers wearing hats like that, although I imagine most of them were army officers. I've always imagined Illya as retaining some connection with the Navy, at least to begin with, and  certainly not as a defector.

[threecee.livejournal.com]

Just to add a question about Illya's uniform. I realize they were using a fictional one, but the insignia or whatever the military term for the doohickey on the left side of his collar - is that an airplane? That could indicate that he'd been a Navy pilot. (The USSR had naval pilots although they didn't have aircraft carriers in the eary days because they considered them "capitalist".) That would explain his ability to fly the plane in Five Daughters. I know there is a fan tradition that he served on a sub, but is there evidence for that in the show?

[duckys-lady.livejournal.com]

Isn't it the end of Neptune when they have diverted the crisis?

[carabele.livejournal.com]

Illya mentions being in the Russian navy and stationed on a submarine in the movie-extended version of THE DOUBLE AFFAIR, e.g., THE SPY WITH MY FACE.

[carabele.livejournal.com]

For myself, I always assumed Illya a tried-and-true Soviet, not a defector in any way, shape or form.

Being able to present him more in that light is definitely a particular aspect of the new movie I am looking forward to seeing explored.

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

Thank you for raising this subject. I haven't anything to add, but I am certainly interested in what those more knowledgeable had to say.

I think, once or twice, there's been the idea raised in fic where Illya's sponsors become political outs, which could make him less favoured later. Not that I can remember anything solid like the title or author. But that might explain why he doesn't return to Russia after UNCLE.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

In Return, his 'fashion design' business is named Vanya's and one of his offices is in Vladivostok certainly an odd place for a fashion design outpost. So maybe he's still working for them after all.

[st-crispins.livejournal.com]

Yes, he was on a sub at some point. Which makes many of us argue that he was probably GRU rather than KGB.

But the new movie folks seem to have gone with the obvious.

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

That's a great idea. I only hope some writer uses it.

edit: really good icon. (excuse typo!)

[threecee.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay. All I remembered was the part about blowing up an igloo. Thanks.
Maybe the insignia on his collar is crossed missles.

[carabele.livejournal.com]

Actually I did use that idea that Vanya's was a cover for Illya to do some continued spy-type work for the Soviets in my THE WAVES OF CHANGE AFFAIR (http://carabele.com/uncle/WavesOfChange.htm)

That particular idea is forwarded in ACT IV (http://carabele.com/uncle/WavesOfChange2b.pdf) of the story.

Here's a snippet:

“Napoleon, do you really think my resignation from U.N.C.L.E. cancelled any debts I owed elsewhere? And does your Western arrogance somehow suppose yourself more a patriot of your country than I of mine?”
Solo stared a bit dumbfounded as realization hit him.
“GRU?” Napoleon inquired in an uneven voice.
Illya nodded slightly.
“Many a covert operation cloaked itself amidst the designer fashions of Vanya’s,” he enunciated with self-accusatory sarcasm.
Solo bit his lower lip lightly.
“I truly did want out of the spy game after what happened with Janus in Yugoslavia,” Illya explained, “but that game held me fast. You see, I wanted to stay in this country, yet at the same time I did not want to lose my homeland. I guess I had become enamored of the American idea of having it all,” he furthered a bit ruefully.
“That bait was constantly dangled under my nose,” Illya furthered, seemingly embarrassed by what he privately deemed his own past self-indulgence. “However to so ‘have it all’, to stay in the U.S. yet remain a welcome citizen of the U.S.S.R., it was made more than clear to me I had to keep firm roots in the GRU.
“Vanya’s was their brainchild and I was its front,” the Russian chastised himself in a very self-deprecating manner. “I think it amused the powers-that-were in my country to put a trained assassin and martial arts expert in the guise of a dress designer catering to the pampered upper class of a capitalistic society. Subtle mental punishment for what they labeled my surrender to the emotional decadence of the West.
“It was more than a half-dozen years,” he continued, bitterness plainly evident in his voice, “before I was finally permitted to sever all the remaining tendrils without incurring the status of a traitor. Afterwards I kept Vanya’s as a reminder never again to put myself in such a situation.
“I believe to this day,” Illya concluded musingly, “that Mr. Waverly too had a hand in my release from over-encroaching national demands.”

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

Formidable! Good on you for the Vanya call.

I won't have the time to finish your fic for a while, but the opening Thrushie does strike me as original and interesting, and very deserving of inclusion in the Ladies First.