The Round Table - Who Will Bridge The Gap?

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I was reading the interview at Del Floria's that features orockthro , a new and young version of the MFU fan.  You can find that interview HERE She has written some stellar stories for the fandom, and to be honest, I don't think any of us older writers could have done it with the same attitude and style.  There really is a difference between writing from our perspective and that of the younger generations that didn't live in the 60's.
The film version of The Man from UNCLE has been done as a 'period piece', meaning they've tried to capture that era as well as is  possible, but it's not going to feel like the 60's, no matter how much care is given to the task.  That's fine, I'm not  complaining, I am merely struck by  how different the interpretation is from those who were there, the first generation if you will, and those who have come along a few decades later.  We all try to paint a similar picture, but somehow the strokes are going to be inherently, vastly different.
That's not a bad thing, and infact, when reading the stories by writers like orockthro, I'm impressed by how tangibly fresh it seems.  Same characters, same old UNCLE and yet... it isn't.
I don't know if I have a question, but I'm interested in what other people think about this.  Will it change the fandom to have writers coming in who see the 60's from their perspective?  How will we fare, the older, original fans?
Brave New World?  I wonder...

Comments

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I think everyone will have their favorite niche, even with newer writers. Some of us came later to the writing of fanfic like me, though my experiences were based on the original show. Still, I offered my AU versions as well adding it to canon and fanon based stories out there. I think it would take a life time to read it all even before the new fanfic based on the movie shows up.

All the fan fiction old and new will still be based on a love of the Man from U.N.C.L.E. and as always it'll be 'all good.' "D

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

All the fan fiction old and new will still be based on a love of the Man from U.N.C.L.E. and as always it'll be 'all good.' "D
Awww, what a happy and true thought! :D
I have a feeling that the fandoms, while they share a name, will probably exist mostly apart from one another. I noticed on AO3 the admins have already made the split, calling what was once "Man from UNCLE" now "Man from UNCLE (TV)" so they are preparing, just like we are, lol. The fanfic, at least, will be categorized separately.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I noticed on AO3 the admins have already made the split, calling what was once "Man from UNCLE" now "Man from UNCLE (TV)" so they are preparing, just like we are, lol. The fanfic, at least, will be categorized separately."

I saw that and it took me a minute to realize what they were doing. Obviously the characters, especially Kuryakin, will be different. Oh, and no more references to the Old Man, at least not the wily old man we know as Waverly. That alone is what will make it seem like something completely new and different.

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

Hah, yeah, the new Mr. Waverly isn't exactly a seasoned old commander, is he? ;P Of all the casting choices, that one had me scratching my head possibly the most. Just not at all what I expected. But maybe he'll bring something new to the role, who knows!
I think the other reason is just how AO3 is organized. It clearly sorts things by what media type they are (book, TV series, movie, RPS etc) so even if it was (somehow, lol, just go with me here) the same actors and the same style movie as the show was, it would be divided purely from an archival standpoint. That's my guess, anyhow!
But I think it will serve the dual purpose of keeping readers from getting confused as to which Illya they should be imagining.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

It'll be sort of like the Star Trek fandom....stories based on the TV shows and the movies. The old and the new.
New fans will hopefully give a nod to the original fandom, since it's one of the oldest around. I think they'll inject new life into it either way, at least I hope that's what'll happen. It all depends on how well received the movie will be.

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

I'm curious as to what some of these differences are! :D I only have my own perspective to work from, and only my contemporary experience of fandom (although that said, I've been involved in fandom in some way shape or form for over ten years)
[[EDIT: omg no it's been at least 13 years. I am 26 and totally read fanfic on our family's computer in middle school.... jeepers...]]
Do you mean mostly differences in writing styles, in subject matter, or in something I haven't even thought of?
One of the things I try to do in fandoms across the board is do things beyond the scope of the original media. In MFU's case, because it was so much a product of its time, that means better gender representation, or exploring themes deeper than the show really ever had the intention of providing, or throwing some crazy whalebone of an idea into the mix. But, at least the second one, isn't a generational thing, I don't think? Maybe it is.

I certainly have no real world context for the 60s or what "feels like the 60s" but I agree that the movie is going to have a radically different vibe. Which I really do think will be good; it won't compete or try to be something it doesn't have a dream of being.

What do YOU think will change? What do you see changing already? Is it different from the changes that happened when the internet became the main forum for fandom versus zines?

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

It's difficult to pin down specifics, but it's there nonetheless. When I write about the 60's environment, I'm doing so because I remember it. Even the show sometimes fails to represent what really was because the writers of the show were older, and not necessarily engaged in the moment. That sounds contradictory in a way, but their efforts at portraying the youth culture was generally pretty lame, and even their token blond Beatle was 10 years older than the group he supposedly resembled.
Writing about it now, we older cousins do tend to put some of our own version of 'muscle memory' into the stories, while the younger writers have an edge that is lacking elsewhere. Your story that you rec'd yesterday, for example, could only come from you. It's a different kind of interpretation of things, even if we sometimes delve into AU; the results are different because our viewpoints cannot possibly be the same.
As for fanfiction, I've only been at this for about four and half years, so the earlier stuff and methodology belongs to another set of writers. Even that is marked by a different sense of story construction , or mood... something. I think the newer stories sometimes lack finesse, but that may be due to greater numbers, and that in turn is due to the internet.

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

Writing about it now, we older cousins do tend to put some of our own version of 'muscle memory' into the stories
Interesting! :D I can totally see how that would be the case.

As for new fic, I wonder if it isn't just the speed. Zines, my understanding is, had hard deadlines so authors would write and edit until a zine went to print. Now we publish fic whenever the hell we feel like it. XD The speed has probably been amped up when it comes to fic production.

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned it's the difference between current affairs and history. I have an emotional resonance if you introduce Khrushchev banging his shoe on the desk at the UN into a story that you won't feel because you weren't there.

That doesn't mean your stories can't tap into that sort of thing, but it will give a different feel from a story written by someone who lived through it.

I'm a Brit, so I'm going to see world situations differently from someone from the US. I assume someone from the US sees a terrorist as an Arab funded by Iran, I still see a terrorist as Irish and funded by Boston. Thank goodness Uncle had Thrush.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting aspect, especially as it pertains to current events. In one of my stories I made reference to Kuryakin's reception in the US being only slightly less difficult than living in London during the Profumo Scandal, the aftermath of it and its affect on his relationships with his fellow UNCLE employees.
Here the difficulty would have resulted from the Kennedy assassination and Cuba, especially, in addition to whatever was fueling anti-Soviet sentiment at any given moment. So yes, the national perspective does make a huge different; thanks for pointing that out.
I do think that the young writers have an inherent edginess at times that is reflective of growing up in the world as its been for the past two or three decades. While some of us had to adjust to harsh realities, the current generation is confronted with it daily if they are paying attention. If they are prone to keeping their noses buried in electronic devices then they're probably not writing fanfiction anyway, or at least it would seem that way.
Another point that is open to rebuttal I suppose.

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Actually I'd have thought the US would have been the more difficult posting than London, even with the Profumo affair running at the time. Communist party membership is no problem unless you want a job involving security clearance and the Russians were remembered as our wartime allies.

[orockthro.livejournal.com]

True! I think it's to the show's advantage that they steered clear of current affairs. It's made it easier and more accessible for multiple generations to work with and not feel limited by!
That said, fic that utilizes any sort of broader context work really well, and I can totally see why things that pull from history trip your trigger. :D It makes them feel more real, no? Whereas for me it probably would add something because I'm not a complete ingrate. I know a few things. ;P But you're right, it wouldn't be the same. I wouldn't connect to it like you would.
That said, I think that's part of the reason I like to write AUs and gender flips; it allows *me* to connect with the show. Since I don't have the shared historical experience to connect with, I am (I guess...?) working to make it something I can identify with a bit.
And, on that thread, maybe that's the biggest difference, generationally when it comes to writing?
The new folks, myself included, are finding creative ways to make it something we can connect with? Hmmm... Just thoughts! :)

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

I'm a first cousin in the UK, so I watched the original broadcast and haven't watched it since. I don't buy dvds and have some I've never bothered watching, but I have read most of the on line fanfic. So the impression I've carried forward from nearly 50 years ago is an almost complete disengagement from the politics of the period.

So since canon wasn't using real geography and politics I don't think young writers need to immerse themselves in the 60s to any great depth. Though I do think you need to decide how you want your setting to work.

[jantojones.livejournal.com]

As someone born in England in the 70s, and not discovering MFU until the 80s, I have no 'inside' experience of either the 60s, or America. My parents were teens in the decade, so I have there accounts of the time, but it's obviously not the same as first hand experience.

I try to retain the essence of the time in my stories, though I don't how successful I've been. I quite often find myself googling stuff to make sure I've got it historically accurate. (I hate calling it history when I know so many people who lived through it). Hopefully, the new film will be good, and it will bring people to the source.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

You're another new voice that has added something very contemporary to the genre. The saying goes... If you can remember the 60's then you didn't actually go through them'. It's an odd way of admitting that for a generation that stirred up so much, their ability to go back and accurately give an accounting of it is hindered by what they were doing at the time, i.e. drugs and alcohol.
I was a kid, so perhaps that's why my memories of it are more vivid, less hindered. I don't know that it helps me nail down historical accuracies because I research quite a lot myself; what it does do is give the narration a sense of authenticity perhaps.
If you're researching the material, you are gaining a better understanding of what that decade was all about, something that will serve you beyond the stories you write.

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

I grew up in the provinces, sex n drugs n rocknroll took another decade to reach us.

And that may be something the younger writers may have trouble researching, the boring lives of the Innocents.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

That is a huge difference between then and now. Everything is instant, and if you don't have money to buy a phone, there are subsidized services that will give you a cell phone and minutes for free. No one has to be out of touch, and as soon as it happens you can know about it.
But then again, that's here in the US.

[jantojones.livejournal.com]

I've always been a bit of a history buff, but it's mostly been British and European history; which is only natural I suppose. Since I started writing MFU, I've been learning a lot of 1960s American history, as well as some global stuff. I've even gotten to the point where I have a book of research notes and useful web addresses.

I'm also learning Russian as a result of trying to make Illya more authentic. I started out just wanting a few phrases, and found myself enjoying the learning process. The offshoot of that, is I get a lot of Russian history thrown in.

I never thought writing MFU fic would give me an education :-)

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

That's interesting. I feel as though I've been in school, I've learned how to write fiction by doing these stories. You'd make a perfect innocent, someone who becomes somehow involved in an Affair, simply because you wanted to learn a language.
Hmmm...

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

The research gets at you.

There was an attempt to get people learning Russian at school in the 60s, as a side effect of the space programme. I'm no linguist, so I didn't get much past being able to read the text without understanding it. OH passed O Level Russian.

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

I have the strangest approach of all, I imagine. Since I and others have noted the lack of Cold War themes in U.N.C.L.E. and how that helps to make the show not feel dated, I take that a step farther and feel that time period is honestly not that important in U.N.C.L.E. Any U.N.C.L.E. fics I write, whether I expressly say so in the fics or not, take place in the present day. Whenever possible (barring shows that really are period pieces, like Westerns), I write all of my classic TV series in the present day, just not exactly the real present day we live in. They have the modern technology, but the innocence of 1960s television that I love so much also prevails. That innocence is one of the big draws of 1960s shows, for me, and sometimes I wish present day TV would still have that!

Of course, realizing that probably everyone else prefers U.N.C.L.E. to flat-out be a period piece, I will sometimes deliberately not specify a time period in fics so that everyone can imagine it taking place when they want. ;)

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Personally I'm ok with that, most stories for me happen in an unspecified now, or SF in an unspecified future, or costume dramas in an unspecified past.

There is a difference between a contemporary (to the author) story and one set back in the same period. I'm a fan of Dorothy L Sayers books. When she died there were notes for another Peter Whimsey story and a book has been written from the notes but not until 40 years later.

The difference shows up in little ways. If Whimsey needs to get somewhere quickly Sayers merely has him get in the car and exceed the speed limit, but the new writer feels the need to tell you what car he's driving and what the speed limit of the time was in an effort to fix the period.

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

Cool! :)

I definitely agree on the difference between something that casually takes place in the present day of its time versus something deliberately set in a specific period. And wow, that sounds rather tedious about the new Whimsey book.

[metanewsmods.livejournal.com]

May we link this on metanews? We also post on DreamWidth and Tumblr.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Yes, and thanks for the interest.