Round Table - Who's In Charge?

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Bill Koenig may be the venerable old man of MFU fandom.  He has written stories and maintains a blog on Wordpress, The Spy Command.  Today's Round Table is focusing on an article from the blog, sent to me by mrua7.

The nature of fandom

Posted on August 22, 2015 by The Spy Commander

Fans feel possessive of what they like, whether it be James Bond or something else.

It’s no secret that fans — whether they like James Bond or other characters — can feel a little possessive. But there’s an interesting essay about the hazards of giving fans what they want.

The article appeared on the DEN OF GEEK WEBSITE. But before we provide the details, here’s a passage of James Hunt’s essay that applies to any fandom.

Fandom at its best is a celebration of a shared enthusiasm for something, but it takes only a little nudging to turn it. Fandoms start off based on something good, but they soon start to feel like they own the thing they love, and that the creators employed to write (or draw, or direct) that thing are only stewards who have to feed the fandom beast or meet with disapproval. Things turn toxic.

(snip)

The lesson? Be careful what you wish for. Not because you might get it, but because you risk getting only that and nothing else. It’s fine to think about what you might like to see. It’s fine to criticise developments you don’t enjoy. But once you expect anything more specific than a well-told story, you may have to blame yourself if you don’t even get that.

On related note, years ago a friend who had been actor said something to the effect, “The only thing an actor owes an audience is his or her best performance.”

Yet, if you’ve been on social media or checked out Internet message boards, many fans do feel a sense of ownership. It’s certainly true that fan dollars support the entertainment. Yet, sometimes things go beyond that.

With The Man From U.N.C.L.E. movie, some fans severely criticize it as betraying the 1964-68 original series because of alterations to the backgrounds of the lead characters. Clearly, director Guy Ritchie stripped a lot of memes from the series out of his movie to concentrate on the characters, played in the film by Henry Cavill and Armie Hammer.

Anyway, the Hunt essay is about Avengers: Age of Ultron. It also includes this quote from the late Marvel Comics writer Mark Gruenwald: “The writer’s job isn’t to give the fans what they want. The writer’s job is to give the fans what they didn’t even know they wanted.”

The full essay can be viewed BY CLICKING HERE. While it’s primarily about this year’s Avengers film, it’s worth checking out for any fan of any popular entertainment.

It’s particularly worth reading for 007 fans before publicity for SPECTRE gears up.

What it deals with is fandom, what it merits and how it sometimes backfires on us, as fans, when our demands aren't met and when they are.
What if Guy Ritchie had cast the perfect actors, who would they be?  I know this conversation went on for years and then we got what we got.  In light of the movie, are you now satisfied with not having our choices in those roles?
More than anything, what is the creators' obligation to the fan?  Do we have a right to say 'do it this way'?  Is it ultimately the expression of the actor/director/producer/writer of a show that really counts?
What say ye?

Comments

[avery11.livejournal.com]

Very interesting. Cousins are welcome to air their feelings about the movie over at MFU Fans later this afternoon in Reera's new Chat Room.

As I've said before, I am totally okay with the idea of a reboot. Art evolves. However, I want a good story, well-told by actors who understand the inner workings of their character. For me, the new MFU movie was not an especially good story, nor was it well-told. It left me emotionally flat. While Armie Hammer's Illya pleased me by generating a bit of sexy smolder, Henry Cavill's Napoleon had about as much warmth as my old Ken doll. But hey, that's just me.

Clearly the film has inspired some of our cousins, as well as generating quite a few new fans. While surfing AO3 last night, I was surprised to see that over one-hundred new MFU movie stories have been posted in the week since the film opened. These new stories are generating an astonishing readership--literally thousands of hits per story! I don't think any of my stories has a readership of a thousand, and that's after five years of writing on LJ!

So, bottom line: I'm going to see the film again tomorrow, because I need to give it a second chance. Maybe my opinion will change, and maybe not. We'll see.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I agree the new interest in MFU is definitely related to the movie. On FF.net my readership is through the roof. Last month I broke 10,000 hits and over 3,000 visits. This month will most likely break those numbers as I'm nearing 10,000 again with 4500 visits. Never had those numbers since I started posting MFU fic there.

The movie was pretty flat to me. Though Cavill was a good physical choice to play Solo, he just didn't exude the charm and sex appeal that the character should have had. I was accepting of Armie Hammer as Illya, though I still don't understand why they did a better physical casting with Cavil, but went to such an extreme with Kuryakin. I was not happy with they way he was characterized, though he did have his moments...he came across more like a gorilla, and a bit of a socio-path with some real anger issues. Some one from Moscow, in her review of the movie stated that that kind of Illya would never have been allowed in the KGB, much less being one of their best. Hmmm.

As fans I think we all have certain things we want to see when our favorite characters are brought to life. As writers we've made them better than they were on the show, and doing so probably resulted in a let down with the movie characters as they were...for some of us that is.

Granted this was AU and an origins story so the interplay between them was just being hinted at. Given the performance at the box office, unless it does better in European theaters, there probably won't be a sequel. Which is a shame as a second chance of getting it right for the fans would be good. Am sure Ritchie would take that into consideration for a sequel.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

I disliked Illya's fist-clenching psychotic episodes intensely. Not because "our" Illya wouldn't have behaved that way, but because it wasn't believable in the context of the movie. And it was distracting. It halted the action while the audience stared at his fist.

Congratulations on the activity you're getting on FF.net! That's pretty awesome. I know I've never approached anything like that sort of readership.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Yes that's a good way to describe his psychotic episodes....distracting and there were things that were too over the top such as his gorilla-like strength and behavior. If the character had issues, I think it could have been handled more subtly. Though there was really no getting into their heads at all.

I'm completely shocked over the stats. I've always done well on the site, but nothing like this. I just checked and the hits have already broken 10,000 for this month. Yikes! I'm blown away.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

That's wa-ay more than the five hundred-ish I'm showing for my stories this month (I just checked.) You should feel very proud!

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I am excited. Perhaps the sit is starting to make a comeback as it hasn't been that good for a while. That's why I'm thinking the new movie might have drawn new attention to the fandom.

[vysila.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm one of those who did very much enjoy the film on its own merits. I've seen it twice now (once with a non-fan who LOVED the film) and am considering a third visit later today.

I didn't think Illya's episodes were distracting at all, in fact they added to the characterization by making him deeply damaged but able to rise above the damage. I thought it made him a much stronger character. And he didn't lose compassion in the process, either - look how sweet he is with Gaby! I was less fond of Napoleon; the surface was there but he had a harder edge and had less self-deprecating charm than RV's Napoleon. But he redeemed himself with his choices viz. the truck, the watch and the tape. :)

At any rate, no, they're not the same characters, but I believe they, and the movie, stands on its own.

The fannish response is pretty explosive, isn't it? That always seems to be the case in new fandoms - which that really is. The new fic does generate some amazing hit, comment & kudo numbers. I've certainly never had anything approaching it, and don't expect that it will spill over to TV verse fic. Most of the new fans will be strictly movie fans, most likely.

Oro and Hils and Alex15### (I can't recall her full name) have all written good stuff for the movie, so if you're up for any reading - those might be good starting points.

[avery11.livejournal.com]

I've read both Oro and Hils' stories and loved them. You see, I really AM okay with a reboot! I never felt the characters needed to be carbon copies of "our guys." I've also seen Kleenexwoman's story, and will check out Alex15's. In fact, I've been reading through all the new movie fic--some good stuff there.

I enjoyed Illya's interaction with Gaby--that was a highlight of the film for me. Others hated it. I, on the other hand, hated the personality disorder the scriptwriters gave him--it felt intrusive to me. Different strokes for different folks.

I'm really glad you enjoyed the film! I would love to join you in that happy place, but it just didn't happen for me. Perhaps a second viewing will help. Hubby and I are going again tomorrow. Meanwhile, according to Box Office Mojo, the movie dropped into 5th place this week, and has made a meager $26 million. This makes me sad, because I worry that there won't be a sequel. And I want to see a sequel. Even if Illya is still clenching his fist.

[vysila.livejournal.com]

Oh, isn't it fun to read new fic? And there's so much of it out there! I understand being lukewarm about the movie, as it is very much to personal taste. But that you liked it enough to wade into the fanfic waters is awesome.

There is indeed some good fic out there for the movie; it's the usual having to sift out the gold in the pile that's the effort.

[carabele.livejournal.com]

I have to say I agree with your assessment of the film. I really enjoyed it. And, on the second viewing, Cavill as Napoleon really clicked for me as well.

The psychotic episodes for Illya worked for me as you noted, marking him as someone deeply damaged who was able to rise above his past.

You know I've been receiving a lot of fav links added from FF.net on my MFU stories, but never thought to check the statistics over there in this mix. Will have to do that today.

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

It shows how close narrow-chest art is to the modern sub-art of popcorn movies etc, that in both the producers' opinion of whether their product is good should be considered to have more value than the customers'.

I still say they should have had other names than Solo and Kuryakin.

[vysila.livejournal.com]

I read the full article and found it interesting that some blame for the failure of the movie in question was assigned to the fans. Granted, the apparent vitriol heaped upon the film producers/director after the fact is absurd and uncalled for - but I think the fatal flaw was not keeping true to the original vision by the writer/director.

It's like with writing fanfic - you write to your own vision and don't pander to what others beg for. Consider the audience, by all means, but do not change your personal vision to accommodate those "fans".

It's hard to go into a new version of some beloved classic (MFU in our case) without a lot of built-up expectations. Maybe Hollywood needs to pass on the remakes of old classics and start producing more original work. I suppose with the amount of money involved in making and marketing a movie that is a forlorn hope, but caution rarely returns the expected rewards.

Those who follow their vision and risk all are the ones who reap the rewards. Think of the original Star Wars movie! It was predicted to be a flop and the three stars feared for their careers after opening weekend.

Um, gee, was I going anywhere with this post? Shutting up now.

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

I still think Bradley James should have been Illya. As for Napoleon, I'm still not sure, but Cavill isn't it.

As for what "rights" fans have--we don't have the right to dictate to the producers (who are not, in fact, the creators--this was a remake, not an original movie), but we DO have the right to vote with our feet.

The idea that it's the job of the writers or producers to give us "what we don't know we wanted" kind of grates on me. I don't like being patted on the head and told "this is what you REALLY wanted, you silly little girl." Because for one thing, I'm probably older than anybody involved with this movie. And for another, I'm pretty clear on exactly what I want these days.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I'll admit to being at a disadvantage because I haven't seen the film yet. I'm not in too much of a hurry, but that won't stop me from having an opinion based on what I've read about it.
Illya with an anger management issue… doesn't seem right or endearing. Instead of our beautifully gifted and subtle Russian they give us Igor with an attitude. I know it's not supposed to be Dmc, and yet there's much there that could have been mined in order to create a character in keeping with the original vision, augmented by something other than a behavioral issue.
As for Cavill's Solo… inasmuch as I'm not a Napoleon girl, I'm more inclined to RV's interpretation than what I've seen of Mr. Cavill. Not that he doesn't have a certain appeal, but a jewel thief turned spy? That was done by Robert Wagner in It Takes A Thief. So much for an original concept.
I tend to think that the people making the film don't really know how to interpret the 60's, nor did they have enough respect for the original to not just put their stamp on it, but they seem to have covered completely what should have been the inspiration it provided.
When I see the film maybe I'll think differently, but ultimately I think it will either be a movie I like or don't, and that it will very little to do with MFU as I know it. A movie, and nothing but a movie.