A Round Table Discussion...

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

This is a little off the beaten path, so to speak, but perhaps worth discussing as it pertains to our MFU-niverse.
In fan fiction, there's a lot of space given to how Illya is treated, the suspicions about his loyalty to UNCLE, the possibility that he's really still just a Soviet spy.  And when I say a lot, I mean a plethora of stories that suggest Illya is victimized for his nationality on a pretty regular basis.
And yet...
When you look at the show, the only one who ever (to my recollection), is ever the recipient of what could be considered a prejudiced or, at the very least, condescending attitude, is Napoleon.  And it's Illya who does the deed.
Napoleon is marked as being 'obviously American', (the inference a little vague; is it an insult? ), and his French accent is 'awful', to quote the Russian.
In The Love Affair, Illya, while sitting with Napoleon in the driveway of a posh estate, complains that there is no difference between him and the  social climbers within.  It is an important scene in the series, perhaps one of the only ones in which he is openly resentful of the Western culture into which he has been inserted.  I wrote a short fic called No Difference that uses the scene as a backdrop.
I sometimes wish the series could have had the continuity we now see in episodic television.  The backgrounds are so vague, something that has been discussed at great length on numerous posts.  But imagine if we had been given more to base our stories on than Illya's tart response to the magician in The Foxes and Hounds Affair, that command to stop invading his thoughts of a youth in Kiev.  How much has been written around that one exclamation of 'That's enough!'?
Napoleon makes a reference in, I think, The Green Opal Affair, in which he speaks of a Grandfather who was an Admiral.  I think that's correct, feel free to correct me if it's not.  Entire histories have been created based on a few words or a sentence.
The lack of character backgrounds makes those small hints of attitude, the declarations made that deride or commiserate, so important to those who construct stories built on such slim bits of information.
Napoleon's accent is awful according to Illya, the accepted theory being that it reflects a French Canadian influence.  He is also too obviously American.  Too naive, too absorbed in his origins that he cannot be the chameleon that Kuryakin is?
What is definitely not in the series is a prejudice towards Illya, he seems to be fairly popular and gets along with other agents. I suppose it would have been a bit inflammatory to have actualy conflict around his nationality, but I do find it interesting that the  only criticisms based on nationality were directed at the American.  Not seriously critical, but there nonetheless. Perhaps the question is, does that reflect on the American or the Soviet agent? I honestly don't know, it's a mystery for another story.
Perhaps there are other instances that I don't remember, I'd love to hear from you about those.

Comments

[leethet.livejournal.com]

I'd say the comments you mention reflect on the writers - writers being notoriously liberal. :-) Of course they'll pick at American capitalism and consumerism and provincialism and ....


But of course it's true that in the show Illya is accepted. I think fanfic is more realistic about that. There were a lot of people who hated the Russians (in that vague, formless way people hate when they actually know very little about the thing they hate). I expect UNCLE agents to be very well trained, but they'd still be human, so inevitably there'd be one agent or employee who had a prejudice against Russians. In that way some fanfic is more realistic than the show (I guess the show didn't want to delve into anything that serious).

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, there's nothing very insulting in the show. We have odd little political entities in foreign lands (foreign to the American audience), and the one allusion to what appears to be not Western is Turbuf, a country that is difficult to nail down, but leaves the impression of an Eastern Bloc sort of place. Again, it's hard to nail it down except for it being a very familiar environment to Kuryakin. Of course the people make no sense at all, it's an odd assortment of characters.
I agree there would have been some bad feelings towards a Soviet, except we're dealing with spies and aren't they notoriously amiable folk? :)

[laurose8.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this thoughtful and knowledgable post. Good reading, too.

When I was a kid (I wasn't thinking much about it) I had the impression that Illya's criticisms were meant to be light hearted and rather acidly friendly.

I think perhaps modern writers overlook that any field agent was expected to prove him or herself.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is any rancor in the comments, except maybe that Love Affair scene. Illya seems pretty upset by the whole thing.
We love these guys because they're so unaffected by the rest of the world; that's why they can keep Saving it :D

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I agree with LeetheT.

Speak just about the characters, I think in Illya's case they stated that he was Russian, flashed an image of in in uniform once I believe, and then of course hinted that he might be recalled home (I forget the episode) But as the show progressed his 'Russian-ness' was downplayed so much that it eventually disappeared, and so did his hint of a 'Russian' accent. He became more British sounding.

Napoleon being a well dressed 'clothes horse' and his "American-ness' showed through now and then and Illya made his snarky remarks, jabbing at them.

There was name calling back and forth and they even came to blows in one episode (about Illya missing diamonds hidden in furniture?) There was always an air of resentment from Napoleon when it came to his partner 'getting the girl' which was rare, or when Illya knew a lot of information on a subject (sometimes before Napoleon knew)

They avoided politics for the most part, and except for a few of Illya's cultural comments...even those disappeared as they downplayed Illya being Russian and therefore Soviet, in the middle of the real Cold War. I think their partnership helped people forget about the Cold War just a wee bit.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I think once they committed to some of the nonsense in Season 3, the idea of relevant commentary about living peaceably with our enemies was sort of out the window.
Wouldn't we all have loved to hear Illya speaking Russian?

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

He actually did in Season 1 in The Shark Affair. I was rewatching it the other day and wham, there is was. Only one line, but it was Russian. It was when Shark asking about speaking it when they first come aboard the ship.


Yeah Season 3 everything cool went out the door for sure, then when the pendulum swung the other way in Season 4, it was far too serious and dramatic. All the comradeship and good natured humor between them disappear completely. In the first two seasons there was an injection of a bit of humor, not comedy though like season 3. sigh.

[ssclassof56.livejournal.com]

I can’t remember which of the show’s creators or descriptions said this (I’m sure one of you does), but it has stuck with me. I’m my own writing I haven’t had Illya’s nationality or politics be a source of tension so far. Other authors have explored it far better than I would.

I often think of the statement above when I have considered including it. I do have a story idea, which I plan to write someday, that would include ramifications of the Russian Revolution.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

It was wise to not try to portray real countries or leaders of countries. In the first year of the series we, America, were still recovering from the assassination of President Kennedy. The speculations about Oswald and the Soviets made for a strange background for a show about a Russian and an American working together. It remains brave and groundbreaking.

[threecee.livejournal.com]

You are right. The only anti-Russian comment I can remember in the show is in the Shark Affair, when Mr. Waverly is talking about the missing Russian concert pianist and has difficulty with his name. Waverly complains about "they" having bizarre names or something to that effect while Illya is standing right next to him. Illya just corrects the pronunciation and goes on to talk about the pianist's skill. It seems a very gauche comment from the supposedly cosmopolitan Waverly.

I think the comment about Napoleon being obviously American was in reference to Illya being the one who had to go undercover, yet again. "It is a handicap, being so obviously American, isn't it?" Probably more of a dig at Napoleon's acting ability than his nationality.

The most anti-American remark that I remember is when Illya commented that Americans were charming, but he "wouldn't want his sister to marry one". Illya was probably indulging in a bit of ironic humor because this was an often quoted bigoted comment at the time.

"Of course I have nothing against {insert minority here}, but I still wouldn't want my sister to marry one." The speaker didn't have to have a sister, it was just a way of expressing that there had to be a limit on integrating "those people".

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten about the one referencing his sister. Of course he uses it facetiously, and it works. The beauty of the show, especially early on, is that they kept all of that under wraps. We have the Jingle Bells Affair, an obvious portrayal of the leader of a country with the familiar rhetoric of Soviet criticisms of the West. It's a stretch to have the Kruschev like character turn into a benevolent Santa Claus wannabe, but this may be due in part to the political leanings of the writers.

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

Hello! Your entry got to top-25 of the most popular entries in LiveJournal!
Learn more about LiveJournal Ratings in FAQ (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=303).