Let's Talk...

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

mrua7 sent me an except from an email she received with emphasis on certain conditions of the new LJ agreement.  I'm writing this initially on Dreamwidth and copying it to LJ. Although there isn't an actual statement of intent to plagiarize or edit the work, if we're still looking at LJ then we have signed the agreement and our work is, for all practical purposes, no longer strictly our own.  Perhaps this was always true, but seeing it in print is a little problematic for me.  I'm open to counter opinions and enlightenment.
Please feel as free as you can to comment, either on LJ or at DW.  If you don't have a Dreamwidth account you can go www.dreamwidth.org
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"Basically they're saying the site has the right to take anything we post on LJ and use it as well as alter it as they see fit.   That holds true for private messaging too....

addendum about the new agreement. Credit to lj user kirathaune, who inserted the bold type.

Of particular note - CREATORS, PAY ATTENTION TO THIS:

“9. Content

9.1. By posting Content, User shall:

9.11. Guarantee to the Administration that Content and terms of its appearance on the Service meets all the requirements of the applicable laws, that User has received all rights and permits necessary to post such a Content;

9.12. In respect of any Content which constitutes intellectual property, User provides to the Administration a non-exclusive (simple) license to use his/her Content in order to provide the Service by reproducing his/her Content as well as by making it public for the entire period the Content is posted on the Service. If User participates in any rankings or if User’s Content is used in any editorial projects of the Service, User provides to the Administration an additional authorisation to modify, shorten and amend his/her Content, to add images, a preamble, comments or any clarifications to his/her Content while using it, and in certain cases based on the Service functions, an authorisation to use User’s Content anonymously.”

Also, in the definition of Terms, section 3:

“Content means User`s information within the Service, including any information published during the process of Registration, in Blogs and Communities as a note or comment as well as sent by User in private messages using the Service.”

Comments

[lilidelafield.livejournal.com]

I am extremely unhappy with some of the details I have read. I had to click accept in order to get onto this site...I am EXTREMELY tempted to cancel my membership here on LJ forthwith...but is there any way to delete anything I have already posted? I do not like the implications of the liberties they may decide to take on a whim...or am I reading too much into this?

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Surely they are only putting into place the same policies that Facebook brought in a few years ago.

And as regards to being under foreign law, which some people seem to be concerned about, US law is just as foreign as Russian law to most of the world. And just as untrustworthy.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the previous user agreement, so am unable at this point to make comparisons. I think the prevailing thought, however, is that the Russians are more likely to take liberties than most other groups due to their current leadership and policies. Anything subject to legal jargon looks suspicious ;) Dreamwidth has been the backup plan for years, and I'm a little weary of all of the hacks and irksome delays we get here. Add to that the potential for having out work 'edited' without even acknowledgement of where it came from is a bitter pill to have forced down our throats.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

As to your question regarding deletion of your account and entries, if you close the account you can purge everything and they won't be visible. You can import everything on your personal account to Dreamwidth, and we are in the process of continuing to import Section VII entries there.

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Don't cancel your account just yet. What I'm doing is posting my stories on FF.net and A03 then posting only links to them here on LJ for my response to a challenge for example. I think that protects them. I did it this morning for today's Picfic.

Honestly I don't think LJ is gong to snitch any of our writing as we're just small fish in a big ocean. It's just the idea of them saying they can do it that is beyond irksome. Keep in mind that private messaging is also subject to them taking your messages all or in part and doing what they wish with them. So they're no longer private.

Go to Dreamwidth and open an account there. It's similar to LJ as the people who created it, created LJ. (before it became a Russian owned company) There's mirror communities for Section VII, the Map room, and others there. It's a little different from LJ but you'll get used to it, just be patient.

In the mean time hold off closing your LJ account.

Glenna is in the process of importing all the Section VII postings to the mirror Section VII on Dreamwidth, so your stories are safe.

I'm going to go back through all my stories on LJ and switch them to links to other sites, so no text will be posted here going forward.

[lilidelafield.livejournal.com]

I have a dream width account, under the same username, and I am currently importing my content to there from LJ. I must say it had not occurred to me to use links. That is a good idea. I will do that. I find dreamwidth a little bewildering, but then so was LJ at first...

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

I'm not a big fan of DW but if need be, it's there for us to use if LJ goes south. I think posting links here on our stories covers us.

I'll no longer be using the private messaging here on LJ, unless I absolutely have to and won't say anything that could be misconstrued as being questionable by the rules of the site, since PM is no longer private.

My problem with DW is that I can never get the 'cut' to work properly, plus there's issues about posting photos and videos. Nothing's ever easy I guess.

Oh, on Dreamwidth, I'm under Mlaw....same name as on Fanfiction.net.

[lilidelafield.livejournal.com]

I do not have a problem with my work being downloaded by "a fan" as it were...after all, AO3 allows it, and I have taken advantage of that feature myself on occasion. The author remains the owner and is credited at all times. Would it not be true that whatever we have published already on LJ, it would be subject to the previous agreement in force at that time? Surely, a change of agreement would only apply to items that are posted on or after the date of the change?

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

That's a good point, and probably true. If there isn't anything regarding a retroactive date then this is entirely about what happens after we've signed onto the new agreement. I'm still importing everything to DW, just to be safe. Marian has said she'll be careful what she posts here, especially things that relate to life in the USSR. Probably a good idea.

[lilidelafield.livejournal.com]

Very wise advice!

[mrua7.livejournal.com]

Don't think anything is grandfathered...

[rose-of-pollux.livejournal.com]

So, is Section 7 going to be abandoned here on LJ, or are we cross-posting? I have a dreamwidth, and it's identical to my LJ, as I use it as a backup (I got it years ago during one of the times LJ had been down), but I would like to know the fate of the comm here.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

I am importing all of the Section VII entries to the sister site on DW. You can find the link in another post. mrua7 has a good suggestion if you're unsure of posting on LJ, and that would be to post on ff.net and/or AO3 and provide a link only, rather than posting the entire story here.
Dreamwidth is a fallback, not primary at this point. It doesn't hurt to be prepared though.

[rose-of-pollux.livejournal.com]

Ahh, ok, thanks! I do cross-post already (as I think a lot of us do), and I think mrua's idea of linking posts rather than posting here is a good idea. That being said, from what I'm reading here, you still "own" your content--they can just spread it around how they wish (although the modifications thing has be raising eyebrows--though maybe that's for translation purposes). Granted, if it's something personal you'd rather not get spread around, that could be a problem, but for writers and stories, we still own them, so that's a (minor) relief, at any rate.

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

Please bear in mind that LJ is governed by RUSSIAN law, not US law--so don't be so sure you still "own your content." That's a big part of the reason that I will NOT be crossposting to LJ and am doing a farewell-please-keep--in-touch circuit now. I am mirlacca on DW, if anyone would like to link.

[rose-of-pollux.livejournal.com]

While you make a good point, that they refer to your content as your intellectual property is what makes me slightly optimistic.

That being said, you could easily be right, in which case, I'm glad I haven't posted any original fiction on LJ, but just fanfics, which I can't make money off of anyway and are cross-posted elsewhere with timestamps to prove I wrote it first. If they do tweak and/or spread around my fics (can't imagine why, but eh), I'll probably be extremely annoyed, but at least I won't have lost my rights to something I could have published for money.

[livejournal.livejournal.com]

Hello! Your entry got to top-25 of the most popular entries in LiveJournal!
Learn more about LiveJournal Ratings in FAQ (https://www.dreamwidth.org/support/faqbrowse?faqid=303).

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

I am mirlacca on DW, and would like to stay connected. I can't find a "glennagirl" account on DW--could you provide a link, please?

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

Hi :D I can't remember why I didn't go with glennagirl on DW, but my journal is under glenmered, but it may also show up as girlintheglen. Here's the link: glenmered (https://glenmered.dreamwidth.org/)

[badgermirlacca.livejournal.com]

Gotcha!

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

When you publish content or information using the Public setting, it means that you are allowing everyone, including people off of Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).

You give us permission to use your name, profile picture, content, and information in connection with commercial, sponsored, or related content (such as a brand you like) served or enhanced by us. This means, for example, that you permit a business or other entity to pay us to display your name and/or profile picture with your content or information, without any compensation to you. If you have selected a specific audience for your content or information, we will respect your choice when we use it.

Does what LJ is bringing in differ in any significant way from the above? Those are extracted from the Terms of Service of Facebook and I remember seeing exactly the same arguments used when they were brought in a few years ago as I am seeing now. And from my point of view they are both applying foreign law to me.

[glennagirl.livejournal.com]

User provides to the Administration an additional authorisation to modify, shorten and amend his/her Content, to add images, a preamble, comments or any clarifications to his/her Content while using it, and in certain cases based on the Service functions, an authorisation to use User’s Content anonymously.”
While FB does repost at will it is never anonymously, at least not that I am aware. The various other services identify themselves and state that they will access or utilize information, to which we generally have the right to approve or decline. Perhaps I am mistaken, but that has been my impression.
This idea that our posts and even personal messages might be used for purposes other than which they were designed, and done so anonymously (compensation never having been an issue), is something that is tantamount to plagiarism. Again, perhaps I have misconstrued completely the tone of this, but others who have more experience and a wider knowledge of such things seem to support concerns regarding the highlighted portions of the agreement.
We aren't leaving just yet, and we have had the identical comms on DW for some time now. Our presence there will now be a constant rather than just catching up with LJ.