Man from U.N.C.L.E. Section VII

I'm very much a traditionalist. I want any MFU story to reference canon in some way. If there is no canon as part of it, then honestly it just becomes generic fiction. Using the same character names doesn't make it MFU fanfic on its own.

Now the canon references can be small and subtle, but they do have to be there for me to enjoy a story. But realize just having the guys as enforcement agents for U.N.C.L.E. (at least for some years) is in itself a reference to canon.

Edited Date: 2013-02-28 03:25 pm (UTC)

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I agree, without hearing authentic voices from the characters and having them in an environment that references the era and mood, among other things, the story isn't really MFU. It doesn't mean the story can't be enjoyable, but I really want something that rings true of the series itself. If the characters are right on, that usually does the trick.

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mrua7.livejournal.com

There are all little elements in a story that can be canon-based, but are so subtle that we don't realize it. Such as the conversations between the two, what we call banter. The routine of them walking into del Floria and the tinkle of the brass bell is canon. Giving a quick description of the grey walls of headquarters. So many little things that are canon, but are just taken for granted and I think, are not really thought of as canon. As Glenna said all these little things ring true of the TV series. The boys themselves are canon, if they're written true to characters, and even if it's in an AU story.

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Yes, all those little elements you mentioned are canon, and that's what I meant with the references being small and subtle.

But real AU, where the guys are something other than U.N.C.L.E. agents and never were U.N.C.L.E. agents and there is really no supposed accepted premonition of U.N.C.L.E in their future (as in childhood stories), doesn't work for me as MFU fiction. It's fiction, and it might be enjoyable, but it just isn't MFU.

Like I said, I'm a traditionalist. [chuckle]

Edited Date: 2013-02-28 05:44 pm (UTC)

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And not sure that was clear by I meant that the "accepted premonition of U.N.C.L.E. in their future": such IS indeed part of childhood stories (even if not referenced directly, the precursing is always there in some form), which is why they can work for me.

Edited Date: 2013-02-28 05:58 pm (UTC)

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mrua7.livejournal.com

I wasn't referring to that sort of AU, where they're other than UNCLE agents, I should have qualified that. I think AU stories that stay within the parameters of UNCLE, and show them still being agents bur have girlfriends/wives is acceptable as long as they're built around some canon.

Childhood stories set the backdrop for the future UNCLE agents, and in my Illya backstories I address how Illya's future habits (canon) habits originated, showing how he becomes the Illya working for UNCLE.

Let's face it the guys can only save the world so many times, and if one stays with only that concept, then the fandom could potentially become stale. Not that i don't love them saving the world....:D

Character background is important to me and part of the character growth. They're agents all the time, but they do have a personal life and a past. That fleshes them out. Otherwise they have the potential to be stereotypical and flat, or perhaps the word :"formulaic," says it better.

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So what you are saying is, just as I and Glenna have, that it is not MFU fanfic without a canon element. [grin]

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mrua7.livejournal.com

MFU stories, yes, AU stories yes. Backstories can't really always involve canon as they take place in the past, but somehow if they can hint at future canon, that's a good thing. I feel they're a legitimate off shoots within UNCLE fanfic.

Edited Date: 2013-02-28 07:24 pm (UTC)

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the-wretching.livejournal.com

Hmm... I think the very definition of "canon" is at issue here. Or, I should say, it is for me. I don't really know how to answer....

It seems like.... just using the characters (even without the same setting) is relying on canon. If Illya makes a sarcastic retort, or Napoleon can't stop himself from smiling at the waitress....isn't that canon?

Or do you mean something like...purposefully inserting into a story UNCLE trivia or specific references to characters/episodes etc. directly from the show?

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From the Fan Fiction Dictionary:
Canon - All of the events which *expressly* happen in the fandom. Meaning, everything, person, event, statement, that happens in the show, movie, or book is canon. For example, Megabyte's real name being Marmaduke is canon because it expressly says in Origin Story that it is. Everything that happens in the show is canon. This is sort of used like a law for fan fiction. alternate universes are where an author deliberately ignores, goes against, or stop paying attention to canon in order to create their own canon.
This page has a lot of interesting definitions. http://expressions.populli.net/dictionary.html

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the-wretching.livejournal.com

Meaning, everything, person, event, statement, that happens in the show... is canon.

That's what I was taking it to mean.

In which case, it isn't fanfiction if it doesn't use canon.
Even in an AU, if fundamental aspects of character are retained ---and if they weren't than the characters wouldn't be recognisable-- then the writer is using canon:

Even if you wrote a story about UNCLE-Zarblat on the planet Zarblat in the year 6930 with all different characters and no one remembered that New York or any of their agents existed, so long as it's an UNCLE adventure---defeating wily bad guys at great personal peril, then it's canon.

Or if you took Mr. Waverly and wrote a complex AU drama about him doing missionary work in the jungle and falling in love with a chess master....It's Waverly, so it's canon.

At least, that's my understanding of the word.
I feel like you must have a more rigid definition in mind in these poll questions otherwise I don't understand them. Hence my query. I'm curious what specifically you mean by canon. My interpretation is clearly too broad.

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Coming into fanfiction, I knew nothing - had never even heard of this genre until three years ago. The idea of canon being at the core of the fiction indicated to me that the story should be recognizable by including those elements by which we define MFU.
Obvious things would be Napoleon as a wallflower with low self-esteem and Illya a tireless womanizer. To me, that is non-canon.
The organization, the setting and the people within that setting are canon, as are the recognizable villains or at least facsimiles of them that fit within the description of who UNCLE goes to battle with.
Apparently everyone who voted has some idea of canon, and their preferences concerning it. I would go so far as to say that slash is non-canon, and therefore without appeal for me, much as if it were making Illya an American or a woman. The same for Napoleon. When you change who they are, then it isn't canon, for me.
Others have different descriptions, perhaps, but some things are truly written in MFU stone, like the organization, the jobs they do and world in which they live. In any event, as this little experiment shows, people do have some construct in mind of what canon is and how it affects them as both reader and writer. How broad that interpretation is will ultimately be up to the individual on some level, although I believe St. Crispins might disagree slightly.
In the end, it's all entertainment and POV.

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the-wretching.livejournal.com

Thanks for this clarification, Glenna. Good examples.
Certainly there seems to be a little wiggle room for subjectivity, but I do feel clearer on what you're getting at.

And the poll answers are quite interesting. I wonder how much the poll-takers would differ on their definitions of canon....what examples of stories/elements they might use to demonstrate canon/not...

A thought-provoking poll.

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I'm glad it can be considered thought provoking. We'll try and make the polls of interest and value to all of us.

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jkkitty.livejournal.com

I do like some of Canon in the story as it will take me back to the show, however, I think so many writers have added things to their versions that refer to canon but enriches it. I only have problems when the writer completely reverse what is going on in Canon with their writing.

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Coming late to the party here.

I don't necessarily need more than the feel of canon for a story to work. But what does throw me out of a story is going against canon. I know it sounds silly, but I was completely nonplussed when an agent looked out of a window in HQ and they weren't in Waverley's office. And similarly someone opened a door that had hinges in HQ.

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Which leads me to ask: Is the Moonglow Affair canon? Because April's office has a window. I've never had anyone explain that one to me.

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st-crispins.livejournal.com

It's a fake window :)

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Is it supposed to be fake? I know it isn't really a window ;) But is her office fitted out with a window? Come to think of it, why does she eve have an office?

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Why shouldn't she have an office? Is it hers alone or is she hot desking?

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It was very girly, as I recall. The offices are very mysterious places; I don't think we ever saw Illya's office. Perhaps that's why the assumption that he shared Napoleon's rather odd looking one.

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If we've never seen Illya's office, where was he doing the typing we saw?

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He types in Hong Kong Shilling, but that's in Hong Kong. Where else?

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I don't know, it's nearly 50 years since it was on TV here, and I don't have the DVDs.

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No DVD set? I sincerely wish I could make copies for you, although it probably wouldn't play on your version of a dvd player. We need to get you some MFU.

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There's a good chance I wouldn't actually watch them, I have some films and box sets bought for my birthday and Christmas that I haven't even opened.

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